The One About Decision Fatigue

Tia: Hey, Monica.

Amber: Hey, Monica

Tia: Welcome to Hey, Monica, the podcast that helps you drop the perfectionism to make space for what really matters in your home, in your food, and in your life. I'm Tia, a professional home organizer and founder of Room for Serenity

Amber: And I'm Amber, a weight-inclusive licensed nutritionist and founder of Whole You Nutrition and Meal Planning Collective. On today's show, we are talking about decision fatigue, that reason that your brain feels completely fried by 4:00 PM or 11:00 AM, or d- it depends on the day, but what it is and what you can actually do about it. As always though, we are going to start with confessions. Tia, what are you, what are you confessing today?

Tia: Oh, this one's a big one, man. This one's… Oh, okay. So I'm a professional home organizer. You'd think I'd have this under control, but I don't. my Easter baskets are still, are still out.

Amber: she's pointing behind her. I see it looks like the top of the fridge has baskets on it. And then just for reference for the listeners, we are recording on the last day of June. So we are pre-recording these. So maybe by the time you hear this in September, they will be put away or maybe they won't be.

Tia: You know what? I think just acknowledging, I think acknowledging the fact that this is an issue and actually talking through it is gonna help me actually take action. 'Cause here's the thing, was thinking about my confession for today, and I was like, "Why in the heck are my Easter baskets still out?" And then I was like, "Oh, because I need to put them in the garage." I'm like, "But that's not hard. I can put them in the garage." That's, like, where all our seasonal storage is. And then I thought, "Oh, the Easter bin is directly in front of where my car parks, and I can't pull it out unless my car is out of the garage." When is my car ever parked outside of the garage?

Tia: Only when I'm in it elsewhere, you know? And then when

Amber: Right

Tia: anything, I'm just … I, I don't think about Easter baskets. So, this is what actually what I talk about with my clients all the time, is think about, the steps. Think about the what's you from getting something done, 'cause we don't pause to think about that a lot. Like, what's blocking me from putting this away? Well, it's too high, or it's too inconvenient, or it's too out of the way, or whatever. For me, it's because my car is parked directly in front of where the Easter seasonal stuff is. I can pretty much get any other seasonal bin out easily, but the Easter ones specifically, no. So a really simple fix for this would be for me to swap out, a different bin that I don't typically need to reach for even once a year and stick it in front of where I park, and then put the Easter bin elsewhere.

Tia: And then I won't have Easter baskets on top of my fridge almost in July. Like, it is

Amber: Yeah.

Tia: it's nearly July.

Amber: C- maybe we have some 4th of July baskets this year.

Tia: Oh my gosh.

Amber: out. Let's fill them with red, white, and blue candy and

Tia: to practice what I preach here and think about, like, what is blocking me? Okay. So, so now I've got it figured out. I've actually thought about it. I paused, thought through what the issue is, and now I'm like, "Oh, that's why. Okay."

Amber: Yeah

Tia: by the time we record next time, they're probably gonna be put away, and the bin's gonna be moved.

Amber: I will be following up. I mean, because I can literally see where they are in our video right now, I guess I can, I can just do a quick check. Keep you honest

Tia: account- Yes, you can hold me accountable on those Easter baskets. All right, what about you? What is your confession?

Amber: so I wrote down the robots won't save us. And what I'm referring to is we do have a robot vacuum. We named it Horton because it both sucks up the things off the floor and then blows it out into his little, you know, resting bag home.

Tia: That's so cute

Amber: but what I've noticed is, so I love it because it gets under beds, so I don't have any of those, like, big dust bunny things just randomly rolling out because I'm not physically moving beds to vacuum under them. So, like, I love that. We have it run, twice a week, so it's like the house just feels kind of more, picked up and… Like, I wouldn't be vacuuming twice a week. I am not that person who would be making that happen.

Tia: Yeah.

Amber: However, there are parts that it can't get to.

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: there are corners that have, like, a chair and a lamp, and it just can't get in there. So let me tell you, in those corners, the dust is still piling up. And I am less likely to pull out the vacuum to take care of those things on a regular basis because the house is in pretty good condition overall, so until it gets really bad. But that's just one of those, like, for every convenience thing we do, there is somewhat of a trade-off. 'Cause if I was pulling out the vacuum, it's easy enough for me to, take out the little tube and, get into a corner and suck everything up. But that's just not happening with the robot vacuum.

Amber: And because the rest of the house is, decent, I'm less inclined to, just be like, "Oh, well let's just do some extra vacuuming today."

Tia: Well, should we, should we talk about what our, our theme is for today?

Amber: I think we should. It's a big one.

Tia: Yeah

Amber: this podcast with some heavy hitters

Tia: We are. And I feel like the benefit of that is that we can always go back and reference, like in future episodes, we'll be like, "Oh, we really hit home on this one on episode three." Like, go back

Amber: Absolutely.

Tia: f- fatigue.

Amber: Yeah, agree. Also, we're only, like, tip of the iceberg. there's definitely opportunity to go deeper on all of these subjects as well, 'cause

Tia: sure. So today's topic is on decision fatigue. So as we all know, our brains can only hold so much detail or information in them each day. And so single choice that we make takes a toll from that brain bank account. So there's this guy, I hope I'm pronouncing his name right, Roy Baumeister. He did research on ego depletion, which really is just a fancy way of saying he did some research on willpower and how decision quality depletes over time on how many we need to make within a certain span of time. And that really, it goes, it ties right into our decision fatigue episode. So we'll be talking a little bit more about, about that research

Amber: When, when I saw his name, actually probably wasn't his name, I think it was the term ego depletion, I recalled a podcast episode that I listened to. Do I know which podcast that I could let you all in on? No, I don't remember. But I believe he's the same guy who did a study, a small study on parole judges and how over the course of a day, you know, the parole judge's whole job is to judge whether somebody who's up for parole gets parole or not, and that they found the closer they were to, lunch or the end of the day, the less people got parole. So it'd start off with, a higher percentage earlier in the day when they're, when the judges I assume, were able to be more fresh and had all of that, brain power and decision-making was at an all-time high and they could, m- think through the facts of the case and, and really, base it on merits.

Amber: But as they depleted that ego depletion, as they got hungrier or as it got towards the end of the day, they were just like, "Nope, no parole for you." And it was less about the merits of each case and more about that, that human piece that you can never take out of the equation

Tia: that's so unfortunate. I almost feel like that research should go towards how frequently judges get breaks or how many more judges we need to be stepping in every once in a while so

Amber: Yeah, or how long the,

Tia: How

Amber: long a workday is or something. Yeah, absolutely. tell me more about ego depletion though

Tia: Yeah, so this study, uh, was done in 1998 and

Amber: The year I graduated. Great year.

Tia: yes, oh, the good old '90s. It was talking about, whether willpower works like a limited resource that gets used up, kinda like I said earlier, kinda like you're taking out deposits from your brain bank account. there were four different experiments, and the first experiment,

Tia: who resisted eating chocolates and ate radishes instead, were served up both, but they were told, "You may only eat radishes," and so they had to use their willpower to only eat the radishes and not the chocolate. And then They attempted to do unsolvable puzzles. The group that needed to use willpower to only eat the radishes gave up earlier on solving these unsolvable puzzles than those who ate chocolate or were the control group and were given no food at all.

Amber: Okay, that's so interesting. Also, poor radishes. I love a radish, but when it's faced off against chocolate,

Tia: I know that's just not

Amber: like it stands no chance, right?

Tia: It doesn't. So for experiment two, this one was interesting because they just had participants make any sort of a meaningful personal choice, like deciding to make a speech about their beliefs, That also depleted their willpower for the next task. it's just showing that it's not just resisting the temptation, it's any deliberate choice that you make that, that drains your brain bank account resource for future willpower decisions no wonder willpower is pretty much dead by the end of the day. Even if you've done perfectly throughout the rest of the day, by the time it's nighttime, it's like, "Oh, gosh, do I have any willpower left?" no.

Tia: and that's not your fault. Science backs this. Anyway, and then experiment three was talking about how if you need to suppress your emotions, then you do worse on performing any sort of solvable task. which is interesting because I think about being a parent and how I, wouldn't necessarily say that I'm suppressing my emotions, but I definitely need to control my emotions around my kids I'm trying my best to show them the most appropriate calm response to things, and It's really hard. if you wanna look deeper into the research, we will be providing the link to the research the show notes. It's actually not that long of a research paper, so it's, if you're into reading stuff like this, you can go into more detail if you want.

Tia: So the last experiment, experiment number four, showed that exerting any sort of self-control made people more passive over time. So they would either default to doing nothing at all rather than taking any sort of active choices. for parents, we're constantly drawing boundaries with our kids about, like, "Mom, can I have this snack?" or, "Can I watch another show?" Or whatever, And that happens constantly throughout the day, so by the end of the day, no wonder when, like when you're really good about drawing boundaries in the morning, suddenly in the evening we're like, "Fine, take the TV clicker.

Tia: I don't care." it's interesting that there's all this research behind… Like, decision fatigue is real. it's scientifically proven that it wears us down,

Amber: Yeah. Yeah, and that experiment number four in particular, that idea of, exerting self-control and how that, over the course of a day, you just become more passive and take, the easy route or do nothing. It reminds me a lot of, people who are on a more restrictive diet, or people who would describe, like, "I'm so, quote-unquote, good all day,

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: then at night I can't stop snacking." And it's like they've exerted this control early in the day in terms of, what they're having for breakfast and lunch, and by the end of the day, they just can't anymore. if you get to the evening and you've been, quote-unquote, good all day, and you feel like you can't stop snacking, you're not making that more, self-controlled choice to be like, "Oh, well, I will just have an apple and peanut butter and some string chee-" like, you're not putting together this nutrient-dense snack. You're like, "Where's that bag of potato chips? Didn't we have some Oreos in the cupboard somewhere?" Because those things feel both easier, and they give you a little dopamine hit as well, and a little energy boost much quicker than, a more balanced assortment of foods.

Tia: women typically are the ones that are carrying more of the mental load for the household

Amber: Yeah, I think, I think that is generally true. And I've also heard from friends and experienced myself that even if there is a sort of shared mental load or labor, that more of it still tends to fall on the women in the relationship. a lot of well-meaning partners are like, "Sure, I'll go to the grocery store. Just tell me what to get." And it's the knowing what to get

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: is almost the harder part than the going to the store. So, in some situations it can look like things are being shared more equitably, but there's still a higher, decision fatigue on one person who's the, planner in, in the group

Tia: the decision fatigue, it's not a character flaw, it's biology. It is biologically something that is very difficult for us to manage. It's, it depletes over time. The goal isn't necessarily to push through it, it's to design around it. So instead of just complaining about decision fatigue for the entire episode, we're actually gonna give you some really great ideas and solutions for how you can manage your day-to-day life that decision fatigue is less, and you have a little bit more willpower towards the end of the day because some of the things have already been decided for you

Amber: i'm super excited about this topic. not because I celebrate decision fatigue, but because I know it's real, and I also know that people often blame themselves for what, Tia, as you just described, is, a biological process that happens. It's just, like, how humans work. But because decision fatigue leads to things like impulsivity and procrastination and avoidance, we take that as some sort of personal flaw that we need to figure out how to fix ourselves, and we don't need to figure out how to fix ourselves. There's nothing wrong with us. But we do need to know how to, work with ourselves and understand that making 100 million decisions in a day is exhausting, and at some point, you just can't do it anymore.

Amber: And this whole decision fatigue thing is one of the reasons that I created Meal Planning Collective, because I heard from maybe not every client, but most clients, that dinnertime decision fatigue is the worst. no matter what they're doing during the day, no matter what their health goals are, no, no matter what their food goals are, you get to that dinner hour, and it's just so hard

Tia: Can confirm. Yes, it is

Amber: I've had this experience, opening up a fridge full of food s- recently grocery shopped, the fridge is full, and then being like, "Yeah, maybe I'll just eat some toast." You know?

Tia: The worst is like when we come back from a Costco grocery haul and legitimately full of food, we open up the fridge, we're like, "What are we gonna have for dinner?"

Tia: Like we just went grocery shopping and we don't know what we're gonna have for dinner. because it's like, oh, 'cause we didn't have a plan for what we were gonna do after we got back from grocery shopping. 'Cause then it's still like are we gonna prep something? Are we gonna cook something, bake it, air fry it? Are we gonna… Nevermind, we're just gonna have chicken nuggets.

Amber: I distinctly remember, and this probably occasionally still happens, but I think I'm slightly more planful about it now, where I would go grocery shopping and stop and pick up takeout on the way home. I used all of my decision-making ability to get the groceries, and the idea of then turning those groceries into something I could actually eat

Tia: Yeah.

Amber: was too much.

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: the grocery list included, like, a frozen pizza because that's all I could manage after this whole grocery shopping ordeal to actually prepare as a meal. having had that experience, seeing the experience of, like, dinner being such a challenge for so many of my clients, I created Meal Planning Collective, which is essentially a co-working session. So we put a time on the calendar, so we build in kind of that routine habit accountability piece, and that's when we do our meal planning. And we prioritize it on our calendar because I think so many of us know that knowing what we're going to eat over the course of the week makes life easier because it reduces decision fatigue.

Amber: but it's never the priority because all of those other questions that come up feel more important in the moment, and so it gets pushed down the list and it doesn't happen. And then every day, and sometimes our every meal, we're like, "I don't know. What are we doing now?" And we have this, little moment of panic, and we look for that easy out or the, let's not do anything, which again, often looks like a bowl of cereal, some toast, takeout, the frozen pizza, which are all great and fine things to include, but we tend to feel better about them if it's the decision we made ahead of time versus the thing we're making in, an emotionally depleted moment.

Amber: So Meal Planning Collective, I talk about prioritizing it, so that's where the collective itself can be really helpful, is getting it on people's calendar. And then when we're meal planning, we need to actually look at our calendars. We don't just write down a list of foods that we think would taste good in the next week because if we have soccer practice one night and a networking event the next night, and there's a birthday party for our friend on Thursday, if we're out of the house, we don't have time to make the, dinner that takes an hour in the oven because we're literally home for 25 minutes.

Amber: So we need to make and pick a meal on our plan

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: be prepared in less amount of time, or taken with and eaten on the go, or whatever it happens to be. So we actually have to, look at the calendar, not just be like, "Well, this thing sounds good." And, in the collective, we also s- pay attention to what do you and your family like to eat? It will likely shift over time, but tuning into that. And I also think about, tuning into the frequency. if everyone in your family loves tacos, great, have tacos every week. if everyone is happy to eat them, let's have them every week. If people are only so-so about it, maybe it's every other week or just once a month.

Amber: So kind of starting to see what- people in your life actually like to eat and how often they like to eat it can make a huge difference.

Tia: Yeah

Amber: Maybe even doing things like, I just used the taco example, but maybe it's like, yeah, taco Tuesday. Might not be the same taco every Tuesday, but maybe you've just already decided we're doing tacos on Tuesday. We have pizza on Friday. We do pasta on Monday. Like, whatever those things are, they can really help you organize. Some people hate that version of planning, which is fine. No one has to do it, And in Meal Planning Collective, I try to keep it as flexible as possible. So if you love a, themed night, that works for you, and if you hate a themed night, you can still do planning that works in your life, too.

Tia: Yeah

Amber: and really thinking about, like, limiting new recipes. New recipes take a lot of decision-making skills. You're, like, learning new things. It's the first time you've seen stuff. You're trying to figure out when it says chopped, how big does chopped mean? what are these onion pieces supposed to look like? so you need to plan those new foods and new recipes for days when you haven't already made a million decisions and isn't crammed with so many other things to do. And one of the things that I created originally for the Collective, but am now offering to anyone just to get a little taste, is what I refer to as the oh shit dinner list, the idea that oftentimes we get to dinner and we're like, "Oh shit, we need to eat dinner." And so the idea of this list is that you're taking the time ahead of time to make your backup plan.

Amber: There's a few different columns on the list, so it's stuff you can make without cooking, things that you often always have in the pantry. There's a column that is, things that you could run in and grab in the grocery store and be in and out in, five minutes or less that you could put together really quickly, and there's a column for, restaurant and takeout so that if you are at that place where you're just like, w- whatever we had planned is not working, we need to do something else, that you don't have to think of what that other thing is because I for sure had the experience of being too tired to make dinner,

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: I'll get takeout, and then spending an hour trying to figure out what that takeout is going to be.

Amber: And the only thing that is in any way slightly pleasant about that is I can sit on the couch while thinking about that versus standing and making something in the kitchen. But knowing your go-to pizza place and the order that people get, or your favorite like fast casual stop that, you could swing in and call ahead and pick up or whatever it is. knowing those things ahead of time really helps with that decision fatigue. And print these out and put in places, or have a notes app, have it in your notes app on the phone so you can look at it and not have to try to remember it.

Tia: if you're in a relationship with somebody else, share that note with that somebody else

Amber: Yes

Tia: you don't have to relay that information to them. They can have access to it as well, and maybe add ideas and update it over time too

Amber: Absolutely. Absolutely. And know the people in your house, what's the order? I know my partner's "Chipotle order," 'cause that's a really easy, we need a backup plan. There's one really close to our house. I don't even have to ask him what it is. if I've decided that's what we need to do today, I already know what combination of things that he likes in his burrito bowl, and that is in a place where I can just pull that up again.

Tia: Okay, hold up, hold up. Amber, I know that you have this meal planning collective, but I am very curious. Is this, like, a, a, a PDF download? It sounds like this is customizable, right? This isn't, like, a PDF download. So how do people… 'Cause I can imagine a lot of people in my network would be very interested in this Oh Shit Dinner List. How do they get their hands on this?

Amber: th- thank you for asking, Tia. so it is available at mealplanningcollective.com, and it is a download. And you're right, it's not a PDF. I don't pre-fill the columns with, the things you should be keeping in your pantry, because guess what? The foods that I like to eat, not the foods that you like to eat. we all have different tastes, and we all have different versions of what feels easy and accessible to us when we're feeling depleted. So it is really important that it's customizable, and that you're writing the list for yourself. Um, I do include a few, kind of inspiration things at the top, to get you thinking.

Amber: You know, so, like, bagged salad with crispy chicken pieces that you can throw in the air fry- You know, like, there's a few little suggestions like that. But you, you do need to think of your own for it to be the most effective. But yeah, mealplanningcollective.com, you can download that. You can, take some time and have the backup plan for your plan, which I think is really helpful.

Tia: I feel like I need to do that this week because Adam and I do a pretty good job of… Well, no. Actually, do better at meal planning. We do a, we do an okay job at meal planning, but the one thing that I think we are definitely needing some help on is the oh shit dinner list on those evenings when neither one of us has had a second to think about what we're gonna feed our family that night. And we usually have some staple stuff in our pantry that we can, is like a go-to. But, this would be some gold for the two of us, so

Amber: Yeah. And thinking about it at a time when you're not depleted,

Tia: Yeah,

Amber: with that decision fatigue. And then being able to, like I said, literally read the list, not have to think about, "What did I write on that list?" Just look at the list,

Tia: Yeah.

Amber: can make a huge difference

Tia: That's awesome. Okay, so gonna, I'm gonna bring us back to this, how else can we reduce our decision-making processes on a daily basis? And I love the fact that you started us off with meal planning, 'cause that is a day in, day out, every day, it's never gonna stop. It's always gonna be something that you need to think about, right? So that's a

Amber: Seriously, yeah

Tia: area to systematize and plan for so that you are reducing your decision fatigue over time. Another thing is what to wear. So I know in previous episodes we've talked about closets and closet organization, and how you wanna have a closet that has things in it that fit you well and that you feel great in. But here's… The other thing is, reducing the amount of choices in your closet is super helpful. And I heard an Instagram, influencer say the other day she does seven outfits per person in her family. don't know if I could go that far. That… Ideally, wouldn't that be great? Yes, 'cause I think our laundry situation would be so stinking easy But I think we would get… I personally would get a little bored of my closet pretty fast or my wardrobe pretty fast.

Tia: so maybe for our family it'd be, like, 10-ish to 14-ish, so like a

Amber: Yeah.

Tia: to two weeks' worth.

Amber: I feel like from a laundry perspective, you need a little bit more, we talk about habit and routine, but there's just as many disruptions to those things. if you only have enough clothes for everyone to wear one outfit a day for one week,

Tia: And then you

Amber: you happen to be out of town over the weekend and you're supposed to have done laundry on Saturday,

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: a little bit of a buffer zone here.

Tia: know. If, if… But, but the idea, the concept behind it, I really got behind. 'Cause I was like, "Well, okay, seven is… I don't think we could do seven," but the idea behind it was, like, limits the i- like, the choices for you to pick from, and it's

Amber: Yeah

Tia: simple. Like, you love all of these outfits, just choose one of them. And laundry is far more manageable when you do not have… Like, can you imagine if you have a house of two people, and you have enough to wear new outfits for a month and a half? That means that you don't technically have to do laundry for almost a month and a half. Can you imagine the pile of laundry that would stack up

Amber: Well,

Tia: you didn't have a routine of doing laundry on a regular basis?

Amber: I can because I don't, because I do not have a routine of doing laundry on a regular basis. I do laundry when a thing that I want is in the laundry.

Amber: That is my routine.

Tia: I think

Amber: I've t-

Tia: common.

Amber: yeah, I've talked about how, I'm pretty decent at the meal planning thing, but I know that a lot of people experience meal planning the way I experience laundry, where I'm like, "What do you mean I have to do it again?"

Amber: So I do get that.

Tia: week.

Amber: And I also recall, um, back when I was in high school, you know, sometime around 1998, uh, there was a stretch of time where I'm like, "I'm gonna wear a different outfit every day until I run out of outfits." It was a very long stretch of time that I did not repeat, the core of an outfit. I think pants probably got repeated, but, I had so many t- different, T-shirts and tops and dresses and skirts. Months. Months of not repeating.

Tia: Wow

Amber: So yeah, I get, I get how much easier it would be if I had less, because then the thing I want would make me do laundry on a more regular basis, 'cause I would be out of everything sooner

Tia: Yeah, and it wouldn't be like five loads of laundry. It'd be like one load of laundry and you're done, or maybe two, two loads of laundry, and then you're done for the week. You know?

Amber: Yeah

Tia: not a big deal. I feel like that's an area where our family could probably improve on. I, I, I've never thought about it as how many outfits do you have in each closet, and now that I think about it that way, I'm thinking about my closet, my husband's closet, and both of my kids' closets. How many outfits could they wear? It's b- it's a decent size amount, so no wonder we're having to do so much laundry.

Amber: Right. Well, plus how many of us tend to kind of wear the same rotation of things anyway, but we have, I don't know, five times more than that? So it's like sometimes we're kind of already doing it. We just have a lot of extra clothing clutter around those things.

Tia: Mm-hmm. Yeah

Amber: reminds me of the advice to have a personal uniform. I think the classic example is Steve Jobs and his black turtleneck, and he just wore that every day. And yeah, you don't have to think about that. And I think he even said his reason for doing it was he didn't wanna have to spend the brain power to think about what to wear every day, so he just wears the same thing every day. So I don't think we need to be, all wearing only black turtlenecks.

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: I do see how limiting the choice makes it a lot easier

Tia: Yeah. I'll just put a plug in for investing in high quality items that don't fall apart easily.

Amber: Yeah

Tia: because if we have a limited wardrobe of really high quality items that will last us for a long time, we will spend less overall on our clothing

Amber: also recognizing all of the, caveats that come with that, including size inclusivity and budget at the time is reality versus, yes, it would be nice to spend and invest in something more, but if you don't have the money at the time, everything gets so complicated so quickly, but I think we can take away, a nugget. So not to say all of us need to have a uniform or only have seven outfits, but where can we simplify those things,

Tia: Absolutely.

Amber: life? Yeah

Tia: Mm-hmm. we talked about how to make routines around planning so that our decision-making is a little bit reduced around that. We talked about creating limited wardrobes so that decisions around what to wear a regular basis is limited, in addition to the fact that it has this side benefit for reduced laundry over time. I'm thinking about all of the rest of the decisions that we make on a daily basis, and some of the decisions that we end up spending so much time deliberating over, is it actually worth that five minutes that you took to deliberate over it, or should you just choose and move forward,

Amber: Great

Tia: make the choice and move forward. Did you say this earlier in the podcast about, like, treat yourself like a toddler, or was that before we

Amber: that was in our pre-podcast conversation, but I think, yeah

Tia: So you mentioned treat yourself like a toddler, which we can get to in a minute, but I'm thinking about, you know how, if you can imagine just like a parent with a little kid at an ice cream shop and how long it takes for that little kid to choose what flavor they wanna eat, and in the back of your mind you're like, "You will have the rest of your life to choose many different flavors. This is not a life or death situation here." but now apply that to yourself, human. Like, apply that to yourself

Amber: Yes.

Tia: like should I shred this or should I keep this or should I this or should I… Like, the things that we spend time deliberating over, sometimes it's just not worth the mental load that we're stacking on ourselves for the day

Amber: I, I agree. And I have found, maybe this is some of the wisdom of aging, but I have found that similar to the closet conversation and the clothes we were just talking about, I have just created limits in choice

Tia: Hmm.

Amber: in a lot of areas of my life. For example, I do grocery shop at multiple stores, but I limit which stores they are, and I, like, know what I get at each of those stores. it's less, I don't know, "Oh, where are we shopping this week?" And I think a lot of people do that with grocery shopping. I also do it in business. I know this is not a business podcast, but I am definitely a person who's like, "Well, these are the tools I currently have. This is the thing I wanna do. I'm going to figure out how the things I already have will allow me to do the thing that I want to do." Whereas I think a lot of small business… there are so many, products and platforms and all of the things for small business owners now.

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: think the default is more often, I need to find the perfect thing that has all of the stuff that I need in order to, build a class, whatever it is. And instead I'm like, "Well, I already have to have this to see one-on-one clients. How can I also use it to build a class or send an email?" we'll just figure those things out, and I think those restraints, I talk about this with food a lot. I'm not trying to make everything I say today about meal planning. But I do feel like having some constraints in place helps with creativity, which also gives us, a different version of satisfaction as well as alleviating decision fatigue, 'cause it's like, well, I've already decided those other things aren't an option.

Amber: Here's what we're working with.

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: then you just have to figure it out versus, continuing to, research the next best whatever kind of thing. So limits can be really powerful, whether they're in clothing or ingredients or whatever, can be helpful.

Tia: Yeah. going back to yourself like a toddler,

Amber: Yes

Tia: about the importance of taking breaks to eat. Do you wanna maybe share what we were chatting about in the pre-podcast

Amber: Yeah. Yeah.

Tia: like a toddler?

Amber: Absolutely. 'Cause no matter how much we, prioritize things and, build those habits and routines, we, at a, core functioning human level, we need to eat multiple times a day. We need to rest. We need to have downtime. And our world is really not built for any of those things. But where we do see it happen more often than not is how parents, and of course, this is coming from a non-parent, but how parents set up the day for their children, in particular for toddlers. I have seen if kids get too hungry or too tired, the absolute, meltdowns

Tia: Yeah,

Amber: can happen around those things. Yes. So building the day around having consistent, meal and snack times, having rest or quiet times or nap times. But as adults, we need those things, too. We might be better at masking our emotions or being able to stuff some things down and still get through the day.

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: when our blood sugar drops because we haven't eaten for a while, and our physical energy is at an all-time low because we've been, like, go, go, going without a break mentally for hours,

Tia: Mm-hmm.

Amber: that is a recipe for decision fatigue. I mean, in the judge example, when we were talking about Roy at the beginning, right before lunch was one of the times that they saw that those judges granted less paroles because they're hungry, and they're thinking about how they're hungry and not about the merits of the case that's in front of them.

Tia: Hmm

Amber: why dinner is so hard. You know, we are not only depleted from all the decisions we've made that day, we are hungry.

Tia: Yeah.

Amber: that makes it harder to make decisions, too. And we see a lot. Yes, exactly, and we see that impulsivity around food a lot of times. this is a conversation I have with so many clients, particularly with, snacking at night, where it feels just, like, so emotional and so impulsive, and particularly for things like sweets or simple carbohydrate-type things like potato chips because those give us a quick boost of energy, and it helps us to feel, a little bit better. Plus, there's a whole dopamine rush and everything, which is nice, too. But we need to take breaks. We need to eat. We can't-- We are not robots.

Amber: Horton can vacuum all day long, but we cannot. So we need to have those breaks in the same way that a toddler needs a nap time and consistent meals and snacks. We as adults need that, too.

Tia: I'm gonna chat a little bit about, may- maybe some little tips for parents about reducing decision fatigue too

Amber: I would love that because, since I just told everyone how to treat themselves like a toddler despite the fact that I've never had toddlers myself,

Tia: it perfectly though. You

Amber: I would love for some parenting advice from an actual parent to be included in our conversation today.

Tia: What you said is still valid even if you don't have kids, because it was true. Okay, but I'm, I'm thinking about kids' birthday parties. We just got an invite to a birthday party for my, my youngest daughter just got an invite. It's coming up in August, and every time I see an invite from another parent, I immediately feel like, gosh, I'm so glad that's not me right now, because it's so much work. And so here I'm-- I, I came up with some thoughts on how maybe parents could reduce decision fatigue around birthday parties. one of them would be choose one location that you're consistently gonna have that birthday party at.

Tia: If you're somebody that prefers to host at your house, just always have it at your house. Don't try and switch up the theme to something different every single year. just always have it at your house. and then if you're gonna come up with a themed birthday party, which you do not have to, I will say. do

Amber: The birthday can be the theme.

Tia: ch- Yeah, the birthday can be the theme in and of itself. Just have fun. Just kids having fun together is great. It's good enough. but if you choose to have a theme, I would say maybe give yourself two big themed items to focus on, and don't go all out on making everything themed. So for example, like maybe the birthday cake is Elsa Frozen themed, or Rapunzel themed, or, uh, Batman or s- Spider-Man, et cetera. And then you can do little favor gift bags if you choose to do that. as a professional home organizer, I'm a fan of when there are not favor bags 'cause I'm like, "I don't need more tchotchkes at our house."

Amber: I think the Earth is also a fan of not favor banks.

Tia: party is fun enough. I don't think we need to do favor bags, but I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not opposed to them too. Like, it's fun. The kids love it. I'm a little bit of the organizer Grinch around it. But if you choose two themed items, it could be the cake and the favor bags, or it could be the cake and the banner that you put up at whatever place you're going to, or just choose two things. It doesn't matter if your party plates have the same theme. It doesn't matter if your utensils match.

Amber: I also really love this suggestion because there, I think there can be something really special about the idea of a tradition too. So if the party is always at your house or it's always at the local, community center at the park down the road or whatever, if you do that every year, that in and of itself becomes something really special about it. Or if you use the same happy birthday banner that gets hung out for everyone's birthday, it becomes a special thing in your family and is one less thing you have to think about every single time

Tia: I know. Add some systemization and some routine behind those birthdays. It doesn't have to be unique for

Amber: Yeah.

Tia: one

Amber: And call it tradition, 'cause then it feels special and not a systemized routine, which sounds so clinical.

Tia: solid point, Amber. I use those terms all the time.

Amber: let's simplify our lives. Let's make decisions ahead of time. Let's prioritize those important decisions.

Tia: I love it. should we move into what's working now?

Amber: I think so.

Tia: Mm-hmm

Amber: yeah. What's working now for you, Tia?

Tia: I heard this online, I think it's an Instagram thing, and it may have been tailored for people with ADHD, but I don't care. I think it's amazing for anyone. The, the phrase is, "Don't put it down, put it away." And this, of course, works best if you have a home for everything to live in your house, as the organizer in me couldn't help but saying that. if you come in the house and you've got, tons of stuff from your car from throughout the day, actually take the three minutes to five minutes to everything back in its actual place. Put your shoes where they belong. Hang your coat where it belongs.

Tia: your purse where it belongs or your briefcase, whatever. take the lunch bag from either the kids' school or from your workplace that you brought for the day and put the dirty dishes in the sink, put the lunch bag back where it belongs. put everything back in its place as soon as you come home.

Amber: Don't put it down, put it away.

Tia: Yeah. What about you? What's working now for you?

Amber: Well, because it wouldn't be 2026 if we didn't talk about perimenopause in some way. I think it's, I think as a podcast, we are contractually obligated to talk about perimenopause now.

Tia: That is so funny.

Amber: I am going to say what's working now is micronized progesterone, which is a bio-identical plant-derived form of progesterone. I've started my perimenopause journey a few years ago, I've just had some symptoms that have been less than ideal, and I finally got to the point where I was like, "I need to try something." So I started taking micronized progesterone a couple of months ago, and it has not magically fixed everything in my life, but the next day after taking one dose, a few things were so much better that I was shocked. So the first thing that was really getting to me was I just had persistent daytime fatigue.

Amber: No matter how well or poorly I slept the night before, I felt like I was moving through heavy fog all day, every day. that immediately disappeared after taking progesterone.

Tia: just one dose

Amber: Seriously. and the other thing that pretty much immediately disappeared was just the most random anxiety that would come out of nowhere about literally nothing, but just feel this like gripping, something horrible is about to happen feeling, had been happening pretty consistently for a couple of months, and I was just like, "This is not me. This is not normal. This is not something I've usually experienced." And that also like instantly went away. my sleep is still a little hit or miss, but the fact that I don't feel tired all day, every day, I

Tia: Yeah

Amber: with like a little quiet reading time in the middle of the night. But yeah, it's working now. I'm guessing this dose and this regimen will not work forever because my hormones are in a constant state of flux these days. But it's definitely working now.

Tia: All right. I think that wraps up our podcast, doesn't it? So that's all for today. If you liked today's episode, you can support the show by telling your friends or leaving us a five-star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.

Amber: we took away the decision fatigue for you. You just leave five stars.

Tia: You don't even have to decide for yourself

Amber: You liked it that much. You just know that. if you have any questions about the show or suggestions for future episodes, you can send us an email at heymonicapodcast@gmail.com. And all the show notes and links, to that study we had mentioned earlier and other things will be available at heymonicapodcast.com

Tia: Amber supports individuals exhausted by dieting who want to improve their relationship with food and body. You can learn more and book a free connection call at wholeyounutrition.com. also hosts a virtual community and co-working space dedicated to planning realistic, satisfying, and nourishing meals that actually taste good. Find more and join the collective at mealplanningcollective.com

Amber: I'm not gonna say this episode didn't slightly feel like an infomercial for Meal Planning Collective, but yes. Don't forget, that is where you can also get that Oh Shit dinner list download that we talked about earlier. and Tia, of course, helps busy professionals with kids who have amazing systems at work but no energy left to create organized systems at home. Book a free consultation at roomforserenity.com or get organizing tips and tricks from her on Instagram. Her Instagram handle is @room_for, and that's F-O-R, _serenity. . Tia: Bye, Monica.